Star Trek: Picard's Todd Stashwick Discusses Liam Shaw's Bold Decision and His Star Trek Legacy

[Warning! The following contains spoilers for "Vox," the ninth episode of Star Trek: Picard Season 3 that premiered on April 13. Read at your own risk!]

Liam Shaw — the blunt, outspoken captain of the U.S.S. Titan whom viewers have come to love for his hard-to-argue-with bad attitude — may not have been the most conventional Starfleet captain in the impressive pantheon of Star Trek's commanding officers, but he certainly proved as he entered his own final frontier that he was just as brave and honorable as any of those who came before him.

"Vox," the ninth and penultimate episode of Star Trek: Picard's third and final season, delivered one of the franchise's all-time great death scenes, as Shaw nobly sacrificed himself to defend the escape of the reunited crew of the Enterprise against the newly revealed threat of the Borg. In the process — just moments after, as an engineer at heart with an encyclopedic understanding of his ship, he devises said escape plan for the Next Generation stalwarts, no less – Shaw also redeemed himself for the frequent disrespect he's leveled toward his first officer, Seven of Nine, thanks to long-standing trauma inflicted by the hive-minded cyborgs that once assimilated her.

It was a needs-of-the-many-versus-the-needs-of-the-few final moment worthy of Spock himself, but with more action-hero overtones. Actor Todd Stashwick — reuniting with his 12 Monkeys collaborator, Picard showrunner Terry Matalas, who directed the episode — infused Shaw with so much steely snark and undiluted vitriol that he held his own and then some against the mighty TNG legacy players — who Shaw routinely, and not always incorrectly, dressed down — and instantly emerged as a fan favorite in the ever-expanding franchise. 

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Stashwick joined TV Guide to share his experience bidding bon voyage to Captain Shaw, but definitely not to his new Star Trek family.

I was ready to follow Captain Shaw into his own spinoff, so my hopes were a little dashed with Episode 9. Tell me your reaction when you read what the endgame for Shaw was going to be.

Todd Stashwick: Well, I didn't read it originally — I was told it. They have loose ideas of how in the middle of writing a season while you're shooting and then like, "Okay, we haven't specifically figured out exactly how things are going to go. We're still whiteboarding a lot of that." And so your initial feelings are sad because you loved being part of a thing, and you go, "I loved being part of this."

The writer in me completely understands narratively how this is a satisfying karmic loop where he is paying back the debt that someone else paid for him 30 years ago, so I understand it and I find it beautiful and poetic and sad and heroic, in all of the things that you want in a death. And simultaneously, no one wants to die, especially with a character that you love so much.

And Shaw provides such great closure in those last seconds with Seven of Nine. That's a moment I think we all have been waiting for since we met him.

Stashwick: It's a bit of a monkey paw though, isn't it? [Laughs] That has been a primary issue for him for so long and it's like, here, he's come through his catharsis. She has changed him, but it's in his dying breath. So it's like, yeah, what do you do?

Tell me about playing that scene with Jeri Ryan after you two had so many great exchanges throughout the season.

Stashwick: It was wonderful. She's such a giving actor and she's such a great scene partner and she's such a great human being that it's genuinely sad. It was genuinely sad… I have no other way to put it. We both went through this whole season together, and reshaping who Seven of Nine is and then getting to know who Shaw is — and Shaw is very much seen through the lens of Seven. I think it was sad, it was wonderful and she was so giving and she's right there with you when you're performing, so it's great to know you're in good hands when you're doing a scene with Jeri Ryan.

Beyond that sort of archetypal sacrificial hero moment, it was Shaw's inner engineer/mechanic that figured out the escape route. And I love that he got that acknowledgement, that his roots as a mechanic helped him get there. And he's a captain who's a fast thinker.

Stashwick: Yeah, and he's not afraid to rush down a hallway with a phaser. So he's a Star Trek character: He uses his brain and he uses his brawn. He's a Star Trek character, very much. Even though his presentation may have seemed unorthodox for the series — and I think that's part of what viewers responded to, was his bold frankness. But I also had to chuckle that he starts to lay out the plan of how they'll get off the ship, then Picard goes, "We'll use that to escape." I'm like, "Yeah, I know. I just said that." It's very funny.

It's kind of been Shaw's lot in the whole season, I think.

A little bit. A little bit!

Tell me about the full circle quality of having appeared on an episode of Enterprise early on in your career, and to get to come back and have a role this juicy, and to work again with Terry Matalas, who kind of handed you this little gift. Tell me, as you reflect on it, what's that experience been like?

Stashwick: An embarrassment of riches. It has been this lovely kind of mathematical equation. Terry worked on Enterprise, and then I got to work with him on 12 Monkeys for four seasons and then he created this role for me. It's been this lovely convergence of opportunity, and gave me a friendship that is unmatched. I think we're a good team. I think he knows how to create characters for me and I love playing the roles that he crafts. I love it.

What was fun about watching the fan and critic reaction to Shaw as each episode aired? Because you knew the arc. You knew that this was a character that was flinty enough that the fans might recoil, but you also knew that it was probably going to be an evolution of "hate him," "love to hate him," "love him."

Stashwick: Yeah. To what degree, I did not know, but it was fun to watch people make firm decisions based on one page of a book at a time. It was entertaining to watch. "We hate him!" and then it was fun to challenge them on their hate. I'm like, "So what do you hate? Do you hate the fact that those guys lied to him, that they stole his shuttle, that his first officer betrayed a direct order and put the entire crew at risk? Of those things, why do you hate Shaw in that situation?" "Oh, because he is snippy." "Got it."

So that was fun, making them unpack their logic, and their logic was a purely emotional one of, "You're being rude to my favorite characters." Not that he was at all unjustified in any way. He certainly spilled a pint of blood for these people by the time that he gives literally the ultimate sacrifice, by the time the credits roll in the end. But yeah, it was a blast to watch them react exactly at how we thought they would.

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What was the key, as you were thinking about playing this role, that unlocked it for you? Was there a little flash of inspiration that made you go "This is the way I'm going with him?"

Stashwick: Exhausted. Emotionally exhausted was a big thing. Beleaguered was a big thing, like a man who is carrying a burden in his soul and heart for so many years that it has become his personality. And so from that, he suffered no fools. He just said whatever he was thinking, he was over it, even though he was still in an exploratory vessel, still had that burning curiosity that a Star Fleet officer has and then the need to carry out the orders of Starfleet because that's what keeps people alive so that they can continue their exploration. But it all was through a sense of, "Boy, I'd rather be napping."

Much like Shaw himself, you were surrounded by these Star Trek veterans and were one of the new faces for this season. Tell me your takeaway from working with these people who've been part of the franchise for so long, and you being the new guy. What was intriguing about seeing their dynamic, and then how you were going to work with them?

Stashwick: Well, their dynamic is they are... It's like a Thanksgiving dinner. It's an old family reunion, and they know how to rib each other and they have each other's number. One of my favorites: They'd just be back there reading the newspaper and then you would watch. Frakes would think of something, and he'd go, "Patrick…" and then he'd go, "Number One?" Even backstage, he just calls him Number One, and it just makes your heart pump because it's what you want them to be: welcoming and kind and funny and warm.

And then as far as takeaways, recognizing the stewardship that we have for this legacy. Trek was there before they got there, and they've signed their name to that family book. And going on the cruise, which was interesting because you recognize what Roddenberry created with the original series is the trunk, and then there's all these lovely branches, which is Discovery and Strange New Worlds and DS9 and Voyager and all of it, even Lower Decks, Prodigy — they're all just branches on this big tree, but we're all part of the same tree. And so there's this mutual love and mutual admiration and mutual respect for each other, and affection. And then recognizing how we are the custodians, the shepherds, we are the ambassadors to this legacy forward facing to the crowd that has put it where it is now, and that is the fans.

With that in mind, you're a genre guy, you respect legacy: Tell me about that first time being in Starfleet uniform, sitting in the captain's chair. Was there a special feeling happening inside you there?

Stashwick: Well, it was a slow-motion process because you go in and you get fitted for your costume, and then you see the concept art of you in the costume and that has its own little flutter. And then there's the fitting of the costume, which is another flutter, but it's not quite fitting yet and they're still cutting it and they're still shaping it. Then there's the, "Hey, Todd — come downstairs, come check out the set." So then I got to sit in my chair when I was just in my street clothes. I got to kick tires on my bridge before I ever had to step onto it in uniform with my crew.

So it was a slow motion process, but I think once all the pieces came into place and then props comes in and fixes your badge onto your uniform, and then you see all the lights going off on all the monitors and there's Esmar and there's Tavine, and there's Mira and there's La Forge and there's Seven of Nine and there's my crew, and it was never lost on me. It was never lost on me. I made sure that I did not race through the experience and just tick off my lines, and I made sure that I did take those moments to take it all in and appreciate the family that I've been invited to be a part of.

And many great actors have had one role in Star Trek that has led to other roles in Star Trek. There's also the possibility that we'll see Shaw in flashbacks or through some great sci-fi great idea to bring him back somehow. And you have talents beyond just acting. How connected to the Star Trek family and Star Trek universe do you hope to stay going forward?

Stashwick: I'm in it for life. This is part of now my own personal legacy, right? You don't undo this. You don't undo this. This is with me forever, so as I've stated before, I am like Arogorn and they have my sword, so however they choose to have me wield it, I will be there for them.

The Star Trek: Picard series finale airs Thursday, April 20 on Paramount+.