Severance's Tramell Tillman Wanted Milchick's Marching Band Scene To Stand on Its Own

[The following contains spoilers for Severance Season 2 Episode 10, "Cold Harbor."]

Few shows can pull off a season finale like Severance. There are a handful of haunting images from "Cold Harbor," the final episode of Season 2 — innie and outie Mark (Adam Scott) finally speaking to each other via recorded messages; an eerie wax figure of Lumon's founder, Kier; Gemma (Dichen Lachman) screaming for her husband as his innie runs away with Helly (Britt Lower) — but the episode's biggest set piece, in which Mr. Milchick (Tramell Tillman) leads an entire marching band in the MDR office, is probably the one that will burn itself into fans' retinas while they wait for Season 3.

Of course Lumon has an entire division of severed employees readily available to act as a marching band — this is the "Choreography and Merriment" department, and Milchick directs them in a performance in celebration of Mark S. completing the elusive Cold Harbor file, which, from what we know, dictates how long Gemma will be kept alive. In an echo of Season 1's ill-fated Music Dance Experience, Mark and Helly watch in stunned silence as their manager fully commits to another surprising demonstration of movement. The sequence ends up being the key to how the rest of the episode plays out: Helly and Dylan (Zach Cherry) trap Milchick in the bathroom, allowing both versions of Mark to find and free Gemma. When Milchick finally escapes, he's confronted with the reality of the fact that Helly has fully mobilized the innies against him, marching band included.

Tillman saw the finale as a culmination of everything Milchick, ever the requisite company man, has been through this season. The actor told TV Guide about all that went into shooting the episode and where the end of Season 2 leaves Seth Milchick.

ALSO READ: Severance's Dichen Lachman on Gemma's emotional Cold Harbor experience: 'The lights came on inside her'

I would be remiss if I didn't start by asking you about the marching band scene. How did you prepare for that?
Tramell Tillman: Oh my gosh. So, I was a little reticent about doing the marching band dance sequence. I didn't want to create this narrative that Milchick dances in every season. And also, I didn't want to try to top the Music Dance Experience, because that is so singular and iconic that you can't recreate it, right? But I loved the creative idea that Lumon has this marching band that viewers have no idea about, or the innies on MDR have never seen before. And knowing that Ben has an obsession with marching bands, he included this on the floor. And so the prompt for me, or the test, was — how is Milchick incorporated into this Choreography and Merriment Celebration? I had a choice, and it was deciding between Milchick being a drum major, or he is the band director. And I said, "There's a real opportunity here for us to showcase Milchick as both." You noticed that the Kier hymn is very traditional, right? And the second [marching band performance] is a big nod to HBCU bands. I graduated from an HBCU, Jackson State University, and their band is the Sonic Boom of the South, the best marching band in the entire world. When I was a student at Jackson State University, I would marvel at the Boom, especially the agility and the endurance of the majorettes and the drum majors, and the band as a whole. So this was my opportunity to lift the fantasy of being a drum major at Jackson State University.

So you'd never done anything like that before?
Tillman: No, not really. I mean, in eighth grade, I served as a conductor for a musical number in middle school band. I don't know if that counts. I was in marching band in high school, but I never directed a full piece. I had the direction of the choreographer and band director, who gave me tips on how to direct, how to hold my hands, how to hold the staff, the mace, how to twirl it, how to catch it, all of these things. I said, "If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this right."

What technical details go into filming a sequence like that, where there are so many moving parts in this enclosed space?
Tillman: It was a feast, what our camerapersons were able to accomplish — getting a Stedicam, and then having it set on the body, and close-ups, and dollies. [Director] Ben [Stiller] could tell you all about that. The camera work was incredible, and it was very similar to the Music Dance Experience, because you noticed there were moments where the camera was just following Milchick around and around. That's what happened here. The camera just kind of danced around me, and then I would find myself dancing with the cameraperson.

I also want to ask what it was like to act opposite the Kier wax figure.
Tillman: So, that was my first time acting with Ben Stiller. Ben was operating the controls.

Amazing. And was it speaking to you as you were filming the scene?
Tillman: Yes. Marc Geller is the voice of Keir — actually, the face of Kier. And he would say the lines, actually hanging out backstage, and he could see me, so we would be synchronized. And Ben was hanging out in the kitchenette and he was operating the head, and the arms, and so we really were just vibing off of each other to kind of create this vaudeville act, if you will.

Something I thought about a lot this season, and something that comes up in his back and forth with the Kier figure, is that there's been a very big focus on his vocabulary. He has that "grow" scene in the mirror earlier in the season, he gets criticized by Drummond in Episode 9, and then in the finale he's yet again criticized by the figure for being "verbose." I'm curious how you see his relationship to language.
Tillman: I believe his language is important to him. I think language at Lumon is also very important. There is a Lumon speak, or a Lumon speech that exists throughout the walls of that organization. And because Milchick's vocabulary is so different, it tells me that this is a man who appreciates words, and I love that about him. I think it becomes hurtful that this statue is commenting on his speech, or policing his speech. We also see that Drummond is doing the same thing, and basically chiding him, pushing him to change his ways, and he pushes back on that. 

What went into shooting the sequence where Helly and Dylan trap Milchick in the bathroom? There are all these big physical moments, like him kicking the vending machine and trying to kind of climb over it. Just practically, how much was you versus a stunt person?
Tillman: Oh my goodness. I actually jammed my shoulder knocking down the vending machine. Me knocking into it, that vending machine falling, that was real. I knocked the hell out of that vending machine. The kicking of the vending machine, the pushing, all of that was me. There was a moment, when I was sandwiched in between the door frame and the vending machine, and the shoe was thrown. The shoe actually made contact with my head. I didn't get concussed! It wasn't crazy dangerous, but it was, like, a little bump on the head. I do have a stunt double to step in to take care of some of the big falls and whatnot. But for the most part, a lot of that action, it was me.

That leads me to a larger question of how you approach Milchick's physicality in general. He has this almost militaristic posture much of the time, and then there are these moments — like the Music Dance Experience in Season 1, and the marching band scene here — where he really leans into the movement. How do you find the character in those moments while still staying true to the person you know him to be?
Tillman: What is really a gift is the creation of the moment, or all the moments that led up to where Milchick is. We start this show in chaos from the administrative perspective. Helly is being integrated, she's an Eagan, we cannot mess this up. A refiner has gone missing, and Mark is now the head of the department. And I'm sure Milchick probably had his doubts about Mark. The stakes are high, day one. If there was a timeline of Season 1, Episode 1 to Season 2, Episode 10, there wasn't a whole lot of time that has passed. If I had to guess, it would be probably less than a month. That's a lot of pressure and a lot of circumstances that have been compressed into this man, where he has no time to process all of these things fully. So, just living in that circumstance, it was not hard for me to kick the hell out of a vending machine.

He's mad!
Tillman: He's mad! And it's also the pain, the rejection, the confusion that he's getting from the board, and the performance review that was lackluster, the fact that he closed himself in his secret quarters to do this paper clip thing, the fact that he's reducing himself — it all reaches a fever pitch. And I hope that audiences will see that it all makes sense that he is going ham.

Yeah, I also noticed something change on his face when Helly is delivering her speech to the band.
Tillman: I believe he is listening very intently to what Helly has to say. I find that Milchick is at a point of an awakening. I love that he's left, or audiences are left, ambiguous as to where he is headed when we close out the season.

With that in mind, how do you interpret that last shot, after Milchick escapes the bathroom and looks out over Dylan and the band? He gets another "f--- you," just the latest on a conveyor belt of "f--- you"s.
Tillman: Per season! One "f--- you, Mr. Milchick," every season. I think, because Helly has now corralled these people against him, he's gotta figure out his way out. I mean, he's still very much pissed that they locked him in the bathroom and ruined his choreography for his drum major moment, I think he's very upset. And he's also in need of solving why the alarms have gone off. He doesn't know what's going on. He just knows there's been a breach, so he's gotta figure that out. He knocks the vending machine down, he does this superhero hop onto the vending machine, and he stands off with them. He's like, "What now?" I think there's a "what now" moment that's happening.

How do you approach the moments of comedy in an episode like this? I laughed when Milchick runs out of the room he's in with Dylan toward the beginning of the episode, and when he misses his cue from the Kier statue. It's such a dark episode, but you get a lot of sincere moments of comedy.
Tillman: I love that you said sincere.

He's so sincere.
Tillman: I think that's what makes it funny. In all of these different circumstances, he makes these choices, but he's 100 percent sincere. That's what makes it so rich. I had a conversation about Milchick, and the perception was, "Does he take himself too seriously?" And I said, "I think he takes the job seriously, but there's an unserious quality about this man." He's a bit of a clown. That's what's so much fun to play. When he's given the opportunity to showcase his frivolity, it's a joy to be able to give that. We see that with the Music Dance Experience. We see that with the vaudeville act, or at least the beginning of the vaudeville act before it gets dark. We even see that with the erroneous pronunciation of "Gråkappan." All of it is intentional, from an artistic standpoint. I just think that it makes him more human, in a way.

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I wanted to ask you about something you talked about on the Severance podcast, where you said you asked Ben Stiller and Dan Erickson if Milchick knows he's Black. You couldn't get into the specifics of what would happen in Season 2 at the time, but after all he's been through this season, has your perspective on that question shifted at all?
Tillman: I think for him to be able to get to where he is at Episode 10, he has to be very much aware of his Blackness. Even the infusion of the HBCU-style of choreography that he does in that second number, that was intentional. I see it as his way of infusing his heritage in a corporation that you don't often see readily.

And he's the only person who could do that.
Tillman: The only person, right! The paintings, as well. We don't see the resolution with the paintings. He reached out to Natalie, and I'm so glad they kept that scene with Milchick and Natalie when they're talking right before the performance review. That's so enriching, and it also gives credence, and shines a light on Natalie. But the only thing that we get from an audience [perspective] is that he just puts the paintings away. There is no resolution. If he was not aware of his Blackness, that story would not exist. If he was not aware that he was being othered, I would think that he would probably take those paintings and put them in his room, or put them in his office and celebrate. "Oh, the board gave me this? This is fantastic! I'm going to put this right up here." It was important for me as an actor to be able to have this conversation with persons who don't directly have that experience. I wanted to get their perspective on how they see this man as specifically Black.

Obviously the innies see Milchick as an authority figure, but what's been interesting about this season is how we've learned how little power he actually has in the overall structure of the company. By the end of the season, what are his thoughts on his role at Lumon? 
Tillman: Well, he just told his boss to eat sh--, so…

He really did.
Tillman: I don't know, Allison. He might feel that his days are numbered, I'm not sure. If he's going to go out, he's going to go down with a fight. I really believe that. I'm not saying he is going to get fired, but if there was a world that he would be removed from the company, he would not take it lightly.

Season 2 of Severance is now streaming on Apple TV+.